Photo taken by Peter Jamus
S U N A H
CEDAR COMMISSIONS SPOTLIGHT INTERVIEWS
We're featuring the six artists of the 2020-2021 Cedar Commissions (taking place Friday, March 5th, Saturday, March 6th, and Sunday, March 7th) in a series of interviews and presentations on our site. The Cedar Commissions is a flagship program for emerging Minnesotan composers and musicians made possible with a grant from the Jerome Foundation.
Through the COVID-19 pandemic, these artists have been composing, exploring new ideas, and assembling teams of musicians to bring their work to fruition. Over the three nights of The Cedar Commissions, audience members will hear music inspired by the process of finding beauty in mental illness, stories of the Portuguese diaspora, evolution of the Hmong language, Black Muslim American fatherhood, addressing personal traumas, healing through Bomba, and so much more.
For our last Cedar Commissions spotlight, we will be highlighting the work of S U N A H. As a song writer, self taught guitar player, drummer, and activist, S U N A H’s Cedar Commission work, “No Word for Queer,” delves into the nature of language and its considerable effect on the way we perceive one another within our communities. Their piece specifically attempts to brainstorm new words within the Hmong language for the LGBTQ+ communities. S U N A H spoke with Aida Shahghasemi, The Cedar’s Marketing and Communications Manager about their background, their Cedar Commissions project, and what they hope the future holds.
Photo taken by Peter Jamus
“I don’t think I have all the answers. I think it’s gonna take a community, it’s gonna take being vulnerable, it’s gonna take hard work to have these conversations. ”
Aida: I saw that you had stated somewhere that you learned to play the guitar by ear. What was that like? And what pulled you to the guitar versus other instruments?
S U N A H: So my dad's a musician. He plays the guitar. Growing up, I was around that instrument. But I didn't actually start playing the guitar until 2012. That's when I released my EP. I don't have professional training. Everything is by ear. Although now that I think, I'm like, I think maybe having some music theory training will be kind of nice!
I was in a band before. I played the drums, and then we disbanded, and then I came out as a solo artist, and my first instrument that I used to make music as a solo artist was a guitar. So everything from my EP that you hear on there was all by ear. I don't even know the notes I play, I just know that it feels good to me, and if it feels good to me, I'm gonna use it!
Aida: What was your band like?
S U N A H: It was an alternative rock band. There was four of us and we actually started... We met at the Ice open mics at the Metropolitan University. We held monthly open mics there, and that's how I met a bunch of artists and we're just like, "Yo! You wanna do this? Should we just jam? ! Should we just jam a little bit?!" So I think it just kind of happened organically. Hmong people were really into rock alternative music, and so that was kind of like the vibe back then, and then we just decided like, yeah, let's just see where this goes. So we started the band and we were called shattered echo’Z.
Shattered Echo’Z. Photo courtesy of S U N A H.
Aida: I like that. That's a good band name.
S U N A H: It's a deep name for us, 'cause we all kinda came from broken homes, so we're like, "Yo! We're like the black sheep coming together to make music, to have music as an outlet to write our stories."
Aida: That's amazing. Why did you disband then?
S U N A H: We disbanded a long time ago. I think everyone just got really busy, busy with life. One of the members, he's a movie director, and the other folks... the singer, I believe she's doing community work. The guitarist... I'm a little closer to him. He's just working now. So I think everyone just had a different direction they wanna go. I would say, I think I'm the one who was more passionate about the music direction. So I think back then it was more like we were a tribe that wanted to have a positive group that we can just come and like be ourselves and just express through music. That's what we needed back then.
Aida: That's amazing. I'm really curious to hear some of that stuff. Did you record?
S U N A H: Yeah, we actually did! We made an album! We had a connection to this space that... this is gonna sound kind of crazy, but the building makes coffins. They have an extra office space. So throughout that whole summer, we went in there and just made music, but it was kind of creepy because when you walk outside of that office space, it's just a bunch of coffins that are being made. It was interesting, I was like, "Okay! It's kind of creepy. But it's like... alright, you know what? It's free! We got the hook-up. I'm not gonna complain. We don't have money." So yeah, we made it in a business that made coffins.
Aida: Can people find this and listen to on the world wide web?
S U N A H: No, but I do have copies. I do have physical copies. Back then YouTube wasn't popping yet.
Aida: So, your EP initially came out in 2014, and then in 2020, you digitally released it, I believe on SoundCloud. Did you put it elsewhere?
S U N AH: So I re-released it. Now, it's on all streaming music platforms. I'm only a one-person team, so I couldn't think, how do I make my music accessible? So when I first released Unique—that's the name of the EP—it was physical CDs, and the only way you could get this was you had to come to my listening shows. That was a way for me to, one: get people to see who I am, and listen to my work, and also: meet people that were interested in just hearing what I'm making, which is kind of cool 'cause I'd create a very intimate connection with people, which... I really liked that part. But the flip side to that is, it wasn't accessible. I think through growing as an artist and returning and understanding the business aspect of it, how to make it accessible, I'm like, okay, okay, it's time to do this, and really sit through all the digital music platforms for people to listen.
Sonic Rain, courtesy of S U N A H
Aida: How do you feel about it? How do you feel about entering the digital music scene?
S U N A H: It's intimidating because everyone is so talented and nowadays, you don't actually need to know how to play the guitar or the bass. Music has definitely leveled up. There's so many electronic devices that you can compose and make on your own that can make a sound of a guitar. It all depends on your creativity and what you want to put out there, so that's the part... I think that I get a little intimidated 'cause it's like, "Oh man, is my sh*t, okay? ! Is it good?” But I try not to overthink it or take myself too seriously. It kinda ruins the joy of making music, but yeah, I think it's so... I think it's dope. Because music now is accessible. Creating music now is accessible for everyone, and I like that because I don't always have money to take guitar classes or bass class, you know, and YouTube is amazing. You can learn so many things on YouTube now, but... yeah, I love it, I enjoy it. I will say the challenging part is, depends what type of artists you wanna be, but for me, I want to learn how to produce my own stuff, so the challenge is learning how to navigate through the different music programs, it's like learning a whole new system. You gotta be just a little bit tech-savvy, making sure your device is compatible with this version of program, updating, all that stuff, which that’s something you wouldn't necessarily do if you just play the guitar. So yeah, it's a little bit of a learning curve, but I'm cool with it.
Aida: Well, we're certainly happy you are because we want your music to be accessible. It would be difficult, especially with the COVID thing right now for it to only be available in physical form.
S U N A H: Yeah, that has definitely played a lot in collaborating... I have a collaborator, but we didn't get to meet as much as I would like to because of COVID, and we just wanted to be safe, and I think there were just little things that were happening that we didn't want to put each other in danger. So that definitely had an impact a lot. I had to do a lot of digital music... I was hoping to do more using live instruments, but yeah, I just had to work with what I had and what's happening right now.
Aida: Yeah, makes sense. It has had such a huge effect on all our lives and especially as musicians and performance artists... I think it's a whole new era. Where did you previously get your inspiration from to create your music?
S U N A H: So I started off actually as a spoken word artist. For me, my inspiration came from my struggles, my stories and what I was going through. My identity is a huge part of my journey even till now, even through this project, and I guess for me, I wanted to share that with my community, because I felt that it was important to be out there, even though it was kind of scary to put yourself out there. To be like Hmong, queer, trans, and knowing that not everyone will respect you for that, you know... but I felt that it was needed. Representation was needed, but also to share my story for those who might be experiencing some of these things as well... and letting them know without saying it directly; letting them know that they're not alone. We matter, you know! Hopefully, I think doing what I do can maybe help someone in their struggles with their identity. I think for me, my inspiration really came from my story of how I deal with my identity and how I want to take that to create a positive messages for folks who might be struggling with their own identity.
Courtesy of S U N A H
Aida: This kind of leads to the next question I had. This may be too personal, but do you mind speaking about integrating your own queer identity into your own family?
S U N A H: Yeah, yeah, I don't mind at all. Yeah, you know, coming out to my parents the first time was just... super hard... Super hard, it was... It did not go very well. They did not accept me. Immediately, it was really hard for them. In our culture, we don't really have that, we don't really talk about queer and trans people... So it's kind of like a foreign language, so when you don't understand something, you can't connect the acceptance, and on top of that, I wasn't conforming to society, because that's not who I am, right? And so, yeah, it was pretty tough. It was pretty tough, but I was running out of lies! I was growing, I was a teenager and you are interested in relationships, and I was definitely not dating boys! And so I had to lie a lot, and I think at one point I was just like, I can't do this anymore, I'm running out of lies. I'm like, I don't want to do this because what's happening is, I'm denying myself in some way! So I'm like... It just hit me. I wanna be free. So I'm just gonna tell them the truth, and we're just gonna see what happens. So it was really tough at first. It took my parents a while for them to kinda understand and... now we're good, we're great. But I think for me it was like: I want to be free, and I had to do that for me. I have to save me, you know?
Aida: It took a few tries, essentially.
S U N A H: Yes, yes. I wanted to live an honest life for me.
Aida: It must have been exhausting though, trying to prove yourself or give validity to who you are.
S U N A H: A lot of masking... I tried not to get caught, trying not to get called being queer. I had long hair at the time, so I was like straight cis passing, and then after I came out, I was like, TRANSFORMATION! ! I'm becoming me! It Just felt... It felt amazing. It felt amazing, regardless of all the shit that was happening. It didn't matter to me. I feel good now, but I think I have to thank music for that. I don't know how I have this thing in me, but having music helped me to have confidence. It also helped me to understand my voice matters! It matters! Cause I didn't really have a lot of nurturing and empowerment. I learned that through life outside of home, through going to open mics, doing open mics, MCing, doing spoken word, writing, music, just meeting a bunch of artists and, I think learning and hearing different stories from people... I was just absorbing everything, so I got lucky. I found my tribe, my supportive group that helped me to feel like I can trust myself, you know.
So when I do this music, I wanna take that energy and put it out there because I think it's so important. I've known people that I've lost to suicide because of the rejection from home, and it's just... It's horrible. It's giving me a purpose.
Aida: A very important one at that. I feel like this question is a little redundant and obvious, but is "No word for Queer" for you to create more conversations around the queer identity in the Hmong community?
S U N A H: Yeah, I want to. I feel like this project, when I think about it, I feel like it's bigger than me. It's bigger than the music platform of it. I could see it transform into even photography, journaling or visual art. Because we actually don't have positive labels for Hmong LGBTQ folks. The only word that we have to describe folks like myself who are queer and trans folks is a derogatory term. So I didn't actually start thinking about it until just the last couple of years, and I was like, yeah, I think we need to talk about this, you know? I think it's gonna be in phases. I don't think I have all the answers. I think it's gonna take a community, it's gonna take being vulnerable, it's gonna take hard work to have these conversations. I look at this project in a music form right now as the first phase of creating inspiration, getting people curious about actually what that can look like in hopes that maybe one day we could create actual positive labels for Hmong LGBTQ folks.
Aida: That's amazing, what a task. It's almost as if you've been brought to do this!
S U N A H: I Know, I feel like I'm living in my dharma! Intention and purpose!
Aida: This is like as purposeful as it could possibly get. That's fascinating and fantastic. It makes so much sense and what an amazing process and journey to be laying down the foundation on which you're gonna move forward and do this really important work.
S U N A H: Yeah, I'm gonna try my best. I think it's important. I can't deny the Hmong in me. Sometimes I feel like language and culture are really connected, if there is no word that existed in the language, then the culture can't adapt to the understanding of what that is, and that affects the community in that culture. Meaning if we don't actually have positive labels and the only word we have is that derogatory term, when they look at us, they associate us with that word! I'm like, Yo! That is so homophobic, transphobic AF. We have to eliminate that, and we need to start putting positive labels to it. I realized that not having positive labels, it's almost like we are being erased in our culture because we're associated with something that's negative. So that's how it started for me, and I was like, no man, I'm Hmong, and I don't wanna look for other acceptance outside of my community, because that's what tends to happen. People move outside of the community because they're not getting support or they're not being seen, so they go outside of the community to where the language is where that DOES exist.
They become part of that. But let's be honest, you can't deny that you're still Hmong, and there's still some work to do back at home. I think it just kind of hit me in that way, it inspired me. We need to channel into this. I think I'm on to something here.
Aida: I think you definitely are. What resources do you feel exist for the queer Hmong community?
S U N A H: So we used to have a nonprofit organization here in the Twin Cities called SOY: Stands for Shades Of Yellow. Unfortunately, it's no longer active. It's been a few years now. We actually don't have that kind of resources here in the Twin Cities. I don't know too much about other resources outside the Twin Cities, but I'm just connected with folks that I did meet through SOY, so that's kind of been my community, but unfortunately we don't have an actual spot.
Aida: I think this leads into the follow-up question, which is, if you can think of such resources, what do you think should ideally exist?
S U N A H: Yeah, I mean, I really appreciated SOY. I think if a new organization can start that can dedicate the work for Southeast Asians, queer and trans South East Asians, I think that would be amazing. 'cause we all need a hub. We all need a hub to go to and feel like we can be ourselves, feel safe, learn about what is queer, what is trans, gender pronouns, stuff like that, because it's forever growing learning. So that's what I would hope for.
Aida: Give us two critically important/good/inspirational songs, albums, or artists people should listen to.
S U N A H:
Phony People - Why iii love the moon
I recently heard about Phony People (I know I’m late to the game) and this song is just so beautiful lyrically and musically.
Eliza - Alone and Unafraid
I found this song randomly browsing through different types of music and I love the empowerment message in the song about being independent and moving [through] life at your pace and on your terms. Maybe I was feeling some type of way that day but every time I hear it, I feel strong and something just tells me that I’m going to be alright.
Epik High - Lullaby for a cat (Sleepless in_____ album)
Epik High is a Korean Hip Hop group. This album is one of their latest albums released and it talks about mental health. Tablo who is one-third of Epik High is Korean American and a lyricist that I respect and admire. I don’t understand the Korean words but the english parts are still as important.
Childish Gambino - 3.15.20
I really dig his latest album 3.15.20. For one I love how the album format is non-traditional. When you see it there are no official titles except for two songs. When you listen to this album all his music connects like when you go to a dance party the DJ mixes song after song. It feels like that. Childish Gambino is a storyteller. He’s obviously a very known music artist as he should be because he brings so much to the music culture. I get inspired listening to his music and the things he writes about: he makes you think deeper and be a better human being.
Aida: If people were to take away one thing from your piece for The Cedar Commissions, what would that be?
S U N A H: I hope it’s inspiration and curiosity to start imagining what positive labels could be for Hmong LGBTQ+ folx.
Aida: Where do you see the future of your music headed? This can be both where you hope it’s headed or where you realistically envision it going.
S U N A H: Well, I plan on applying for more grants to continue pushing the narrative of “No Word for Queer” and I hope one day as a music artist I will be an established, successful artist that can receive income from doing what I love. I’m also interested in theatre as well. The possibility is endless so I will stay open minded and do my best to connect with people through my music and other art platforms.
courtesy of S U N A H
